Bonus Valentine’s Episode 277 with the amazing Mandy Gerth | Lower Valley Farm | LVFarm Academy
I know you are going to love her because she was our Crossfit gardener of the year in 2015! And you have taught me so much! I love all that you do and your delicious food and what you do! And she’s gonna share their new LVFarm Academy
Tell us a little about yourself.
I am Mandy Gerth! Farmer and co-owner of Lower Valley Farm in Kalispell, MT
my husband Jay and I are are going in our 7th year of full time farming. We run, I think we’re at about
4 acres of production
all organic
primarily sell through a CSA
2 acres of that is using the intensive model that was kind of pioneered by JM Fortier!
I know you had him on your show!
community supported ag
- winter squash
- sweet corn
- potatoes
separate rotation then intensive
I think that is new since I last talked to you.
We go really hard may through oct
- we run a 20 week vegetable CSA
- Kalispell Farmer’s Market
- do a tiny sizable amount of wholesale
- food aggregate
- directly to small grocery store chains
overview of the farm!
We also have 3 school-age children 7,9,11 they have grown up on the farm very literally
co-owners
awesome crew
really helped make this farm go
under all of that is our community, we also couldn’t do this without our awesome customer base!
I could talk about the farm forever!
OK, I think, what we want to hear about what’s been going on and how does your journey go from gardeners to farmers.
Back to the beginning?
We started out thinking we would be running livestock
vegetable operation would be what would help us make money while we get a livestock operation going.
Before the beginning ~ what made us want to do this
our family had a life changing experience
eating nutrient dense
We volunteered on farms a lot! We loved being a part of our farm community in that way
in Indiana
We were doing a raw milk share
you can do in Indiana but not in Montana
super local food
- grass fed beef
- lamb
- backyard chickens
But we were buying farm pastured eggs
slowly with each investment we made in lifestyle changes in our food
Our young children’s health changing dramatically
one of our children had some serious sensory issues
We got in really deep and we were spending almost all of our money on food
why don’t we have a farm?
it was like we don’t have a farm because we aren’t farmers because we
don’t know how to farm
if I could go back to myself
First of all I would give her a big hug
you have no idea what you are getting into!
We have a garden we can do this!
what I would go back and tell myself
having land is not having a farm
access to land that had been in Jay’s family for 3 generations
Parents had put it in a conservation easement
But we built the farm and all the infrastructure!
It was just a conventional hayfield
That’s what we want to hear is how did you create this farm, that’s nutrient dense and it melts in your mouth and the table is laden with just an incredible amount of food!
it’s been a steep learning curve
made that huge dive
You Can Farm: The Entrepreneur’s Guide to Start & Succeed in a Farming Enterprise
you should farm
I was like yeah!
we can do this, if people like us don’t do this who does?
IDK maybe people with experience
in combination
Market Gardener: A successful Grower’s Handbook for Small Scale Organic Farming
IDK if JM’s book was out yet? I’ll go back and look and see
The Urban Farmer: Growing Food for Profit on Leased and Borrowed Land
in Curtis Stone, I’m not sure his book was out yet, we were watching lots of stuff on youtube then, watching tons of things
go for it
that first year we did everything by hand 1/4 acre
That’s what I feel like, when I look at Mike’s mini-farm it seems huge but then compared to what I saw at your place on the farm tour! I’m like whoa!
It’s a lot but what makes it doable is the 2nd year we invested in the BCS tractor and that was amazing!
What JM Fortier says to buy in the book
Market Gardener: A successful Grower’s Handbook for Small Scale Organic Farming
when I called to make that order he was like oh you must have read the book.
started out there with JM’s template
since then we’ve adapted it to what works here for us, we’re in a similar climate to him but I think our weather is a little more severe. We’re just North of Flathead of lake and we have some really intense wind so we have to adapt.
And with all that wind, you end up with lots of erosion you have to worry about? Right?
We don’t have too much erosion problems is we are always keeping the soil covered
The problem where we keep the soil covered is we have invested in a tremendous amount of sandbags. The first ones were not the ones.
Now we get them from
Farmers Friend LLC lots of sandbags I’ve seen on other hand poof!
What are the sandbags for? Holding down plastic?
So our row cover we use
2xs as many sandbags
on the south as we do on the northside
we cover the sandbags for row cover
use the extensive use of Silage tarps that JM’s lays out in his book we also get from Farmers Friend LLC
We’re wind pros now!
Well that can be trouble also like your high tunnels.
Jays got that really dialed in, he take’s care of taking care of our infrastucture need extra reinforcement.
We’ve
it is amazing! we have a lot of snow here, right?!
our large tunnels they’re 35 feet wide by 100 feet long. Those stay up over the winter
We also have small caterpillar tunnels those come down
I think there are six
12 foot wide by 100 foot long
caterpillar tunnels
two full size that stay up over winter.
When we get heavy we snow, then we go out and bang the snow off the tunnels so they don’t collapse.
Good thinking, I think Mike was just so surprised last year.
A family with small children
first we did 1/4 acre
then the second year went up to one acre which is a big jump able to do that because of the BCS tractor
Then the third year we went up to 1 1/2 acres
1/2 an acre were non intensive crops
squash
potatoes we kept in a different rotation then the intensive crops
That year we bought a 4 wheel tractor
non-intensive crops
putting compost
all of our weeding is done by hand
We are just using the tractor for all of our intensive crops
4 wheel tractor is complete different production system for the little bit of storage crops we do for our CSA customers.
slowly adapted over the years
Our 4th year we brought in a full time employee
she’s wonderful
we had our one full time employee and now we have 5 wonderful part time people who work with us who work with us May-October.
It’s not just Jay and I working with us.
We have our full time person Mon-Friday and she’s here April – Oct
Then how we set up the systems on the farm
our one full time person she’s trained to do lots of things! She’s incredibly super intelligent. She can do everything! And she’s a quick learner!
before lunch
part time people trained to do a few things
monday and wednesday those are the days we have our part time field work people come in
tues and thurs
harvest days we have our packshed crew there.
On Friday we go for early out for the crew.
pack for market
field, harvest, packshed
hopefully they can go at 1pm
leave us to do paper work office work done from 1-5pm.
don’t use any interns
no interns we only use paid employees
We have a young family so we are attempting to keep our life structured for your children. You know that a farm can swallow all your time
Learning how to create systems on the farm to make life manageable and the farm run smoothly so it’s a positive place to work!
What’s the difference between employees?
So we have one person who can do all of those jobs who is with us m-f full time
mon-wed field workers
We train how to
- weed
- silage tarps
- transplant
Where do you find people to do that work? Do you have to do it those days because of the market setup?
We’ve been really fortunate to find great people
I’ve heard so many horror stories about hiring
put an ad out on
- craigslist
- social media
- customer base
Usually get about 20 applications for every job that we post
we first do a phone interview 3 questions
have you ever worked in a woman run business?
questions for men, we have a primarily female crew here
everyone coming into our team listening to woman
somebody doing field work
people who have had experience working in the sun
heat
heatstroke
why they want to work on the farm?
call their references
Then we do a full day paid workday interview
WE usually know right away if they are a good fit for our crew. If they are we hire them at the end of the day
That’s the process
field workers which is really fun
pack crew which is also really fun!
It’s always in the shade
it is wet that can be uncomfortable
On a hot sunny Montana day that could be nice.
we do!
may is a little uncomfortable
Oct is miserable and really cold!
That’s a downside pack shed work
fun place to be they’ve got the radio going
In the season May it’s the garden season summer coming. In Montana, people don’t understand you get off of work you get like an extra day after work, the days are so long to go to the lake after work! It’s like crazy summer!
third position you ask about
harvesting crew
our full time employee Cari and i
primary harvesters
harvesting work directly with us
until we are confident they have learned how to do each task.
It seems like making a bundle of radishes no big deal but there’s a lot to it
we’re very particular how everything
a lot of training
120 crops
start people out harvesting side by side
When we’re comfortable
can you walk us through like what would you do for training someone like one crop?
lettuce mix
that’s what we start people on
usually Cari
does lettuce mix
harvesting
all of our beds are set up JM style
straddle the bed with our feet
We start by teaching people how to move like that
- how to hinge at our hips so you are not hurting your body
- food safety
- knife nothing is allowed to touch the soil touch the ground
- systems in place on how to move the tubs around
- There’s the actually cutting so the lettuce get’s a nice regrowth
- put it in the tub in a sanitary way
entry point for people
we sell tons of lettuce mix
It’s our number one seller
food take food safety
lettuce mix really really dialed in so it’s what we start with it’s also something we grow
continuously for 30 weeks
may 1st through Oct we’re harvesting 3 times a week
something we learn to do really well because we are harvesting consistently
I never even think about that food safety stuff but I think I need to think about it more.
if you want to sell vegetable you need to but for your own home consumption
unless
someone who is high risk
- chemo
- autoimmune disorder
- special needs of someone you’re feeding
Make sure your knives are always sterile and that your tubs can’t touch the soil
If you put a tub on the ground
Where do put the collecting basket?
They’re on the harvest cart which is sanitized
tubs nest inside of other tubs
tubs on the ground
food safety training
tubs
clean tub inside of it
any soil that gets on the ground,
one tub
clean tub
any soil on the ground
it’s not a big deal
soil is life
for some special needs customers could be an issue
We’re in the process of GAP certified
- standardized
- practices
certified organic
certifier
systems are in place
keeping your knives clean
washes their hands after using the bathroom
clean water your working with
big deal for stuff to not be touching the ground
those are some of the basics
- There’s a lot more too it! It’s not as big of a deal when you
- get used to it
- system for it
sanitize our harvest knives
do that as part of a normal part of the day
especially we specialize in baby greens
as a consumer
mom
I take that real seriously
I just have to give a shout out for regulations, I mean tomorrow again we’re on the verge of another shut down, it’s good to have regulations that say wash your hands after you go to the bathroom.
it’s important to know when it comes to food safety
tied into the farm bill
make crazy rules with the Food Safety Modernization Act (FSMA)
initially the reaction was there’s gonna be no way to have small farms
guess who went to bat? The small organic farmers, people just like Jay and I got super involved, not us specifically, but people just like us, they have families and they are so busy but it’s
something organic growers can do
activists
it’s annoying but it’s been made doable because of activist in the Small Organic Farm Market Movement.
I agree, what does Maragret Mead say, nothing a group of committed citizens can’t do? Do you not have animals anymore?
we don’t have any animals for sale
We keep the homestead livestock for the kids but after taking that food safety training they are completely separate
Can I ask you a question? One year Mike grew me all thsi broccoli, these squirrels, poopped on it and took bits out of it and I was like I should just boil it and eat it.
I would definitely label that return to the sun food!
I felt so bad? But I shouldn’t have eaten it?
I forget what the FSMA
number of feet
if you have wildlife in your crops, you have to measure out a certain radius around it you’re not allowed to sell
those are good rules especially on larger operations. If deer get in the field
But for the home gardener, you used good common sense don’t eat that.
one thing if its chickens but another thing if it’s wild animals they could have any kind of food born disease
For commercial growers if it is chickens it’s not allowed to be in your crops which is a good rule.
That’s why we keep our livestock completely separate
goes for a run
have to take that out of production
for like 180 days.
one loose piggy you know how they like to run around.
Your cows were so cute! It was almost like you could talk to them they’re were just so fun. There was like a mom and a baby. I’m not a farm girl, that might be the closest I got to a cow. Animals were not a part of my growing up maybe just a dog and a cat.
dairy cows are so beautiful and it’s really sad as vegetable growers
season that overlaps keeping for keeping animals is really intense for us so we have a friend that keeps dairy cows
when the kids are older I look forward to keeping a family cow again but it’s just too much for us! there’s so much work!
big jersey with those eyes!
What’s next? I keep going back to the 1/4 acre to the 4 acres. The tractor?
The most we use it so much
and for anybody scale up
anything
Buy the BCS tractor and get what JM Fortier says to buy in the book and make changes from there that suit your
Eliot Coleman
he says 2 people can work 60 hours a week and work an acre
I have so much respect for eliot coleman
2 people working an acre intensively
you need to have the BCS tractor
It was such a game changer!
If you have to take out a loan for it
less expensive then going to the chiropractor! It will save your back!
Do you want to explain what intensive means?
intensive word
originally used by Eliot Coleman in his wonderful book
The New Organic Gardener by Eliot Coleman
it’s a system
different then vegetable row cropping
instead of cultivating with a 4 wheel tractor
Instead of the industry standard of
- tilling a field
- going out and translating
- weeding
- tilling it back in
It’s a system where you make permanent beds that are manageable on a human scale
12inch walking path
30 inch bed
eliot coleman made up that size which is the industry standard now for
We have very
- nutrient dense soil
- smaller space
- so we are able to put a lot more back into that soil
- keep the beds clean of weeds
so we don’t spend a whole lot of time weeding!
which is huge!
Intensive also means
as soon as it comes out of production, let’s say we harvested a second bed of lettuce mix, that bed will either be planted with a
- cover crop
- succession crop
THAT same week!
never just sitting there!
turned over right away
soil is over covered
erosion
intensive beds never just sitting there
kind of merges over with the bio-intensive method which is the term Eliot Coleman gave to his method of growing
is this intensive?
is that intensive?
- if you are using a permanent 30” bed system
- minimal tillage
- soil samples
- giving back
- getting better ever year
I’d say that was intensive.
So if you don’t have your animals anymore what do you do for your soil, manure etc?
that’s hard for sure
to get beds started
compost from Kalispell Creamery, if you are not local, we are so fortunate because there is a dairy here they do a pretty good job of handling some nice compost here.
It can be problematic if there is not enough nitrogen in that to keep the soil going long term
we grow cover crops
which is a crop that you grow not to harvest but just to reincorporate into the soil
that’s another way we build soil nutrients
What do you like in Kalispell?
we’ve got theres 2 different kinds here
ones your growing the soil keeping it covered but don’t give that nutrition back
really fast
buckwheat
it’s a good one! It can help if you need more organic matter! It grows really fast
covers the soil right away and has a lot of stuff there.
It has little leaves right
Yes, just don’t let it go to seed you’ll have buckwheat forever!
I hope I didn’t do that last fall then you’ll
with a blue berry perennial crop
it’s more
winter kill isn’t a perennial
if you have blueberries it could grow and be a mess
more of a problem for things we grow like
lettuce mix
That we don’t want anything coming up
except what we plant because of the intensive model
Well, you see Mike might be like you are never touching the garden again, wehere I want to put the blueberries is like a foot away from his other bed where he plants lettuce and peas etc.
Now permanent beds mean you never plant in your walkways?
Yes, our feet are the compaction
we never plant in the walkway
just for walking
one thing we do now that’s different
JM BCS tractor
don’t make raised beds with the BCS tractor anymore
Thats great because it’s one less step
means that the paths aren’t as clear which is one of the reasons we have a highly trained crew
We don’t want anyone walking on your permanent beds!
The pressure from your feet can create a bit of soil compaction! if you’re trained you can tell
Visitors just walk on it it’s like don’t walk on the beds!
So then if you are not making the beds with the BCS what are you doing?
Just the compaction from walking in the path 2 inches lower so you can tell where they are out?
How come you don’t have to turn the soil with the tractor anymore?
there’s an attachment for BCS tractor the called a flail mower
when a crop is done for example of the lettuce mix
- We’ll mow it
- chops up all the crop debris really small
- power harrow
instead of going in a rotary motion like a wheel the way that a tiller would
It has a back and forth motion
so it just laterally moves the soil down
you can adjust it depending how much debris is there
small as pass as possible
so we are only working the top 2 inches of the soil
so that harrowing does sort of fluff it
exactly 30 inches
After a bed’s been harrowed you can really tell where the bed is
Jay and I are really good at walking straight with that tool so you can see where the bed top that perfect 30″ top is.
So am I picturing this right, it’s kind of like mowing the lawn but turning it in at the same time and your mowing lettuce not grass?
you almost
have to switch out
mower
switch the mower off
things that have to be mowed for the week
Then switch the implement
and switch to the harrow
after it’s been mowed
the harrow comes and it has a roller the perfect bed top
The first time I used this thing I literally cried, I was like I can’t believe this!
Before that we use to use a bed roller that Johnny’s Selected Seed makes that rolls the top of the bed
The harrow is amazing!
It’s such an amazing tool! It makes the perfect bed top.
You asked about amendments, part of food safety for us, we only put that on at the end of the year because it’s an animal manure and it would need 200 days before we can plant into that as commercial growers
We would only do that at the end of the season, so between planting we use a certified organic source from poultry waste. It’s not ideal we have to buy it from out of state. I do have a lead on a local source
certified organic amendments
bump of nitrogen
as were flipping the beds
mow put down the amendments then harrow which puts the amendments into the soil too.
Now 200 days, what if that manure was sitting on your property? Would it still have to be 200 days cause that’s after you mix it into the soil or after its been laid? Like if it sat for a year before you put on the bed?
It needs x amount of days?
if it was on your own farm and you want to eat it as a finished amendment there’s a ton of rules I’m not sure on you would have to make sure that
- compost up to temp
- document it had gone through enough days
- turned enough times
- it was hot enough so that pathogens are gone
We respect the use of any animal compost being treated as manure
There are different rules for manure for finished compost
Since we are buying compost that has not been process through a professional food safety we treat it as manure
Lots of things about food safety here!
Let’s talk about the LVFarm Academy!
We are so excited about this!
Each year we make a major infrastructure upgrade
making a better
major adjustment
It’s free with CSA membership
it’s open to the larger community for $7/month or $62 a year
Online school that we have created this winter
basically last 6 years of CSA newsletters
-
teaching
-
expanded it
-
organized it and
-
easily accessible in one place
hosted through teachable
go to our website
some are set up on preview
$7/month
- definitely people in our CSA
- interested in seasonal eating
- shop at the market every week
I for the last 6 years now I spend between market and farmstead about 6 hours a week talking to people about how to prepare vegetables
what’s in season when and why
I’ve got a lot of practice doing that
organized the things I say over and over into this LVFarm Vegetable Academy
5 different parts of it
A-Z guide
every crop we grow
- how to store
- prep
- What to do if you have a little bit extra
- crop availability
For instance with garlic scapes it’s available usual
What time of year?
Didn’t you and Jay meet in Art School?
If you don’t know Mandy she just has this amazing eye when you go to her farm stand you see these amazing photos of their family and she’s just put it together in a really well laid out plan and also, I’m pretty sure you’re the one who told me what nutrient dense food was and about Sally Fallon and the Weston A. Price foundation. I’ve learned so much from you and what you put together it’s just lovely I saw the inside look. It reads really well you write about the family and caring for your body and our environment through food.
been really intentional
meeting people where they’re at
- people’s who doctors said you need to eat five vegetable way
- eat down the rabbit hole
- where I was at 20 years ago
- barely knew how to make pasta
to where we are now making sauerkraut and seeking out raw milk
There’s something for everybody
People who are new to seasonal eating to those at the 400 level
something you’re going to learn
wherever your at on your seasonal journey for it to not be overwhelming to make tiny changes, one change at a time
comfortable where they’re at
I like how much time I spend in the kitchen
They might say oh, I’ve never made collard wraps
collard
out of a cooking rut
one new skill
oh my gosh
- I wanted to know how to do all of these things
- I didn’t know how to do any of thing
You don’t have to live in Montana to go to the Farmer’s Market or the CSA where you’re like what do I do with bok choy or how do I cook this? Oh, yeah I was gonna ask you about the crops did you say you grow 120 crops?
- I just got my seed order finished yesterday
I ask Many if I could put these pictures of her moving her beds around comparing it to Tetris.
crop rotation
how we rotate crops through
different crops have different nutrient needs
pest
depths and pull out different nutrients soil balanced that way
serious!
120 crops
I want to be rotating them so that nothing is in the same space within 3 years of each other!
It’s a big puzzle! I get started on that puzzle next week!
crop variety have been interested
Indiana to nw montana
a couple of varieties I’m so happy
6 new kinds of tomato
just looking for that classic tomato flavor in a way that will grow here!
I’ve grown all the weird heirloom Russian and German varieties! Every year ther’es a couple of new types.
I love heirloom tomatoes and I live in an area where its always cold at night! Right?
Yes, I’m so glad to hear it from you? I’m just like give me a cherry the others are just so depressing!
all
staple tomatoes
every year now
really like from high mowing seeds
glacier salad tomato
2 inch diameter tomatoe
these are the kind I would have had ripe on mother’s day in Indiana grown as a precursor to the real tomatoes.
glacier has been such a good performer
tomato texture
grow that as a main crop
favorite heriloom
mountain princess
also though high mowing seeds
small beefsteak
trellising tomatoes
just stake
stake these up
they’re nice dependable 72 day
another good source for northern tomatoes
heriloom
little seed house that’s based in Oregon
they’ve got all of these lesser known strains of open pollinated and heirloom for the Pacific NW. They’re not necessarily for Montana. I don’t do anything that’s 100 days except for brussell sprouts
got a lot of unknown varieties
That’s another thing you sell I love are your little lovely packets of edible flowers.
So excited to be here and talk about the farm! And introduce people to the LVFarm Vegetable Academy
free preview of the Academy
check out what it’s about
5 emails
free ebook with free recipes
walks you
up pops the home page
little form we want to share a preview of the LVFarm Vegetable Academy and you put in your name and email and it signs you up to get some emails from me. signs
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