Here to talk to us about grafting tomatoes, growing in hoop houses, organic methods for dealing with mites, reducing your carbon footprint, using beneficials and healthy soil, how to be successful at the farmer’s market and so much more is David Wolverton from Arlee, Montana.
I am posting this replay because David and I are going to talk again today, on Dec 3rd and I wanted to share his first interview packed with valuable tips for growers and gardeners everywhere!
Tell us a little about yourself.
Well, I’ve lived in western Montana all my life. I traveled but then I always just coming back here. Now I’m 60 and I’ve learned a lot in those years and I still have a lot to learn I’m sure.
What does organic gardening/earth friendly mean to you?
I appreciate that… your question has organic gardening/earth friendly in it because as I have seen, the organic gardening mature, I’m glad to see it embrace more research, more discovery and make it something that’s actually far more valuable. I remember back in 1970, when I was a teenager, exploring and discovering the organic method vs the chemical method there were a lot of ideas that have since been discarded fortunately because we have learned.
For me it’s a continuous process, we are going to learn, we’ve learned much more about beneficials, insects, for example. We’re exploring interesting features about micro-organisms and their interactions there’s just a whole range of things that are probably coming soon that are going to revolutionize agriculture. There’s just more cross-over, traditional, I should say chemical, traditional is really organic but chemical ag is adopting some of these things that were first. Adopting some of these things that were first tried out by organic gardeners. In that respect I find it a very fascinating time to be gardening.
Do you want to go any deeper and tell us some of the things that your’e seeing the I guess if you’re not gonna call it traditional, the more big producers the chemical people using?
Well I think that there have been some realities, right now we have an easing of the energy issue, but that was a fear, that there’s definitely sometime going to be a limit to the fossil fuels, and a lot of people don’t realize that’s going to a major source of the nitrogen that’s used in standard agriculture comes from various fossil fuels, and that’s what’s pumped up production throughout the world, the entire food insudtry is so dependent on that, well, now we’re learning more about other ways to do things.
Understanding the soil
We’ve already explored different ways of breeding plants, that can maybe tolerate less fertility, perhaps we can get into a better understanding of soil, and have microbes that would naturally be able to provide some of the fertilizing it’s going in many directions, and some ideas no doubt that will be discarded later on, other ideas we can’t even imagine what they are, they’ll be coming along and we’ll be seeing major changes in how we grow the food for very large population on this planet that needs to eat every single day.
So many valuable things there… what you said about…. alternatives are expensive there’s not enough success, I think that’s key that we have to keep failing, and trying and trying… How many times did Thomas Alva Edison build that lightbulb? 10,00 times or something…. We have to keep trying and trying… why I think we need blocks in kindergarten because kids need to see what falls down and how to build it over and over again.. gardening is the same way because as soon as something is not working you start thinking this is what I’m gonna do next year to be successful….
What a great answer! One of the best ones ever!
Who or what inspired you to start using organic techniques?
I met a wonderful woman at my church, she’s gone now, Ida Nowel was her name. She was a subscriber to Rodale Publications, Prevention and Organic Gardening Magazine . She brought older issues and i just thought this was wonderful. I didnt’ have much experience, my mother was working 3 jobs and tired, and so I was learning. It was so grateful to get this information, basically it was a system and a structure. It had all these experiences from all these different people and I just loved it!!!
Rodale Publications starting in 1970.
I talk about Rodale’s on my show a lot I LOVE THEM! But I also have been wanting to say for a long time now, so I’m just gonna throw it in here listeners that I would not have bought the Flower Farmer book I talk about a lot and many other great books if I didn’t get an email from Chelsea Green Publications in my box frequently. I love them and am always excited to see who’s new on their list of publications each month!
I think it’s interesting someone was asking about my avatar and target market and I was thinking it’s not a market as much as a lifestyle and now they have that magazine.
How did you learn how to garden organically?
Yes, I started trying the techniques, I told myself not to just run to the nearest can of chemicals, which was the norm back them, oh yeah, I have weeds so I’ll just go find something in a can to dump on the soil, it wasn’t questioned it was just the way to do something.
And pretty much all agriculture and home gardening, had gone over to using cans of stuff like DDT and cans of various fertilizers that had a detrimental effect on the overall soil health, turned it to concrete.
But it was this alternative that was saying , well, OK these innovations are interesting but we really need to develop more natural ways, more sustainable ways. It’s a theory in progress, because some recommendations back then we wouldn’t even think of doing now, but things have come along over time!
Tell us about something that grew well this year.
When I saw you at the market you had some amazing vegetables there!
Well, the pepper plants, and a lot of the potted things. I’ve been doing for years. I had to do a lot less for several years because I’ve been caring for my aging parents, but they’re gone so I’m able to come back into the market. And there’s a wonderful woman at the Market that used to be on the board of the Missoula Farmer’s Market and she wasn’t any more but she was still one of the Godmothers, so she was always there and checking in and we shared ideas. So I asked her well I want to get back in “What does the market need?”
And she said “tomatoes”
At that time there wasn’t once single tomato purveyor at the Railroad Market. The one purveyor had moved down to the market by the river.
Love Your Mistakes
I said. Ok, that’s an interesting order, I’d never really done tomatoes other then my own personal use. So I did the research and I played around and I had a lot of fun growing tomatoes. And like I say, you learn from your mistakes, and I had a whopper of mistake this year. I think that’s one of the questions – what didn’t do well? Well, unfortunately the tomatoes I had a spectacular unrelenting aphid problem and I basically I had to pull my crop out. And that was a big blow to me, personally, I had to accommodate that. But as I said embrace your disasters learn from them, love your mistakes!
I know how to handle the aphids in a more timely and a more organic fashion. I did try to find an organic solution but it’s just that it was overwhelming and there really was no chemical alternative, people said I should have tried chemicals but there really wasn’t but the bottom line is next year I will have tomatoes and next year I will have other things too, I learned to branch out and start planning always for the following year.
Just I want to tell people if you don’t know there’s 2 markets in Missoula, one by the Railroad and one down by the river is what the Railroad Market means. And 2, are you going to tell us what your organic aphid solution was?
Tomato Aphid Infestation
We had an unusual spring.
We sure did didn’t we?
It was a spring I hadn’t seen in like 40 years. Perhaps not so spectacular to urban people, but as a gardener as someone who pays attention to the weather from dawn to dusk, it was so windy in Arlee where I grow. So April and May very little rainfall and lots of wind very low humidity, this was unprecedented!
I’m only theorizing, I’m doing more research but somehow this meant that as much as I would use the natural soap sprays to use eliminate the aphids. And even the chemical growers would recommend using these soaps that are considered organic.
I would knock out the population the winged females would come flocking back in from somewhere. I did drop the ball sometimes, but in 40 years, I had never really seen tomatoes infested in aphids. So I sure learned this year that they can be and if there are certain weather conditions, I need to be better prepared. What I learned for next year, is maybe I won’t see these conditions for 100 years. But I will be aware of them and
I can quickly order screening, for the entrances to the hoop houses so once I eliminate the infestation of aphids, I won’t have the winged females coming back in to reinvest the greenhouse. Again it’s something everyone said, they’d never seen such a bad aphid year, I felt I wasn’t alone I think I had a really bad problem in my area was overwhelmed, it was just a really tough year.
I did meet some people who had got there tomatoes already and they said they got them from you, so it couldn’t have been that bad?
It was my crop, that I put in my greenhouse that got so infected. I still made money, I got my money back. That’s always nice.
I grow some no one else grows. I grow a seedless tomato. Again there were many people at the market that were depending on my crop of seedless tomatoes because they can’t eat seeds for medical issues, they can’t eat seedy things. So I had to disappoint them, so that’s why I’m doubling up so next year I can avoid this, and anticipate other problems in a more proactive way.
Did she tell me you start the tomatoes in your greenhouse in December?
I start them actually in my house in December. I would have to go back to that principle that wonderful woman Natalie Lyons, she said “Grow tomatoes and do something about the price.”
So I thought every inch of the way, “How can I do this the most economically? Obviously in December, my house is already heated, tomato plants when they start, they don’t need much space, so I just use my house to start the plants that is already heated, then I’m not also heating the greenhouse, the expense, what would you say? The unnecessary use of fuels…
How to be as efficient as possible
so all along trying to be as efficient as possible determines how I grow things and then also I feel it’s keeping with the organic spirt and being as easy on resources as possible and yet grow things well, and grow them as efficiently as one can so my house is already heated, the plants don’t take much room initially and then as they get bigger
Increase carbon footprint incrementally
then I start incrementally putting them in places where they have to be heated, then incrementally I increase the carbon footprint as you call it, but not right away. I don’t like heating up a huge greenhouse in the dead of winter for a few plants it’s not sensible and it’s certainly not economical.
But didn’t you say there’s like a 1000 of these plants? Even 1000 seedlings that seems like it would take a lot of room?
Indeed it does, so I have, when I start them and I sprout them they’re in trays of 200 seedlings in a tray that’s 1 foot by 2 foot. So actually 10 square feet, would accommodate 1000 seedlings. Of course they’re very tiny, they grow only for a week or 2, probably 2 weeks in that size container then they have to be moved to slightly larger container well then that’s 72 plants to a tray, so basically 36 plants to one square foot.
Small Plant House Holding 1000 plants
Now we’re talking about small footage, when I do have to start firing up what I call my plant house. And it’s not very big, it’s only 12×16 but it has double layers of shelving, with grow lights. That way I can concentrate in a small building, a very large number of plants again. Well a full 1000 then after a month or 2 I have to start expanding outside and getting the green houses heated but by then we’re talking February or March. The temperature starts to ease, there’s much more light coming from the sun, which provides a lot of heat. And it just keeps getting better week by week.
Grow Lights Crucial to Success
So I kind of wondered when you’re growing things in December if there is enough light, so do you use those grow lights right from the start?
It’s absolutely crucial. The reason is, there’s so little light at our attitude, the 47 parallel, runs right thru between Arlee and Missoula up where you are it’s probably the 49th parallel. So we’re quite far north, the trouble is, there’s very little light, the sun angle’s so low, and the sun is up for so few hours it’s not sufficient. So using the artificial lights, economically, to have just a few lights, again for a 1000 seedlings in a condensed area, and as time goes by I use more lights, as I repot them into more pots. The bottom line is, they do need the artificial light.
By March, then we’re getting enough light from the sky, that going outside, does work, actually by February. I heard that in Missoula, with it’s cloudy overcast weather, there’s usually only 5% of the light in Missoula as there is in July. So that’s a huge contrast and gives one an idea why its so crucial to use the artificial lights to start the seedlings. Then as time goes on by March, they don’t need the lights there, under plastic they get what they need from the sky.
I can see that, just the number of actual hours the sun is up in July is twice what it was in December. When we used to run solar panels, there were only 3 weeks in December we would have to run our backup generator. I know Missoula also has that inversion-cloudy piece to deal with.
I think I should talk about that cloudiness, June is usually a cloudier month. I think they were saying that July has probably the highest sunshine factor in Missoula, because it’s somewhat less cloudy then June.
Even thought your right June 22 is probably the highest sun angle and the longest hours, for our climate you have to kind of push it, and I’m sure for Eureka too, push it into June and July, that’s when you get your maximum amount of photons.
My husband starts the seedlings about February, and he starts them in the south window, and then he plastics our porch off of our kitchen and we open the window and door and the heat from our house heats it goes into that area, and he puts like a double plastic wrapper around the porch. But it’s on the north side. And he talks a lot about growing on the south and north side. Do you want your plants on the south side? Does the north side have the right kind of light?
In the winter time, the north side is going to be in the shade, there’s not gonna be much light. The sun rises not east or west, it’s rising in the north east and it’s setting in the southwest… the front part of your house isn’t going to receive the sunshine …. if it has a fiberglass ceiling where the light get in … it might be a little bit cooler, if there’s not a lot of light that can produce some good seedlings is true
Direct sunlight is so important failing having the artificial light, I should mention this shed I have, it has no windows because that would just be a source of heat loss… it’s well insulated… IT has fiberglass or whatever they use for the ceiling… I also keep the plants there at night so the cats provide the carbon dioxide, nice place for cats, nice for the plants, that way I reduce the energy because those lights they do produce enough energy where everybody and everything is warm and I watch the temperature.
If we have a chinook… It can get too warm. I have to use two exhaust fans, I recommend to everybody to watch the light. For a few plants… Every hardware store has lights for a few plants, you can grow a couple of dozen plants.
Wow! Fantastic I’ll bet people are excited to grow some stuff already.
Is there something you would do different next year or want to try/new?
Grafting Tomato Plants
One thing we missed is I graft the tomatoes, 1000 tomatoes is grafts. That’s why I start them extra early. Unless you have a hoop house, that you’re gonna heat in March, starting plants in December is way too early,
The grafting process knocks some of the speed out of your seedlings. In the long term it’s a fantastic process, it does wonders for producing healthier tomatoes for a much longer period.
The people that I grew for, they have hoop houses a little more sophisticated then mine so they start planting them out in February. The reason they like my grafted plants is that the root-stalk is a hybrid between normal tomato a wild tomato relative of South America.
By themselves they don’t produce any edible fruit but if you graft a good variety of tomato on top. Then this root stalk gives them this tremendous vigor they stay in production longer. It’s interesting that the hydroponics people, they often use grafted plants. Now they control their conditions perfectly, there’s no disease issues, the temperature’s perfect, they have their roots swished in that solution all the time. They graft because it gives a longer productivity, because the vines will last months longer even in those perfect conditions.
And for less then perfect conditions like how I grow and these other people in St. Ignatius. We grow in soil and certain it grows a more tasty, probably more nutritious tomato.
The grafting does wonders, it can take the cold soil better, it doesn’t need as much fertilizer. It invigorates the plants so even though it can’t pass on its disease resistance directly a much more vigorous vine resists diseases.
The whole point is the productivity, the longevity of productivity , and the general robustness and disease resistance is substantionally enhanced by the grafting. It’s tedious it’s a process, I’m learning, I’m getting pretty good at it now it does really pay off. I charge these people about $1 a plant but they probably get at least $20 more in production by grafting then they would otherwise, so it more then pays for it for them.
Awesome. I asked her you’re heating a hoop house with a wood stove and you can still make money selling tomatoes and she was like Oh yeah!
Greenhouse Eggplants and Peppers
For next year I’m gonna try to branch out I’m trying to locate adequate rootstock for
Eggplants and peppers, I’ve been doing lots of research, there’s a source out of Vietnam I want to give them my credit card in support. Eventually I hope it will become available for the the gardener in Montana, get rootstock for eggplants and peppers.
The whole point is next year I intend to expand into greenhouse eggplants and peppers! They’re different varieties, then one grows out in the garden. That’s something different Im gonna try for next year, I’m gonna see how can I enhance the total overall season for vegetables in the Missoula area.
It would be my ideal May 1- the end of Oct and people can grow to the Missoula Markets and by extension any market in Montana and be able to get fresh tomatoes, fresh eggplants, fresh basil, fresh peppers, fresh everything! Locally grown, grown in soil, grown organically for the whole 6 months market season! For the winter market, see how much can we grow? I’ll certainly push the limits to see what we can grow economically, abundantly greater health for this area. I think that’s important for all of Montana.
And everywhere, people are gonna learn from this everywhere! I always tell people podcasters change the world. You’re teaching the world today sharing your knowledge and teaching so much information! I love it! Thank you so much.
Something that you find is easy to grow and is generally successful every-time.
As far as something kind of different, but that give me so much pleasure everyday, is I grow Rhodedendrums. In Western Montana you can put them in their proper places,, it’s not a true Montana crop, western Montana, there’s a rumor that somewhere in Missoula there’s a 14 foot rhododendron!
Those things do grow, they’re gennrally considered south but the right variety will grow! The neat thing is they have big fat leaves that stay on all year. Then they have this unbelievable display of flowers in the spring.
Getting away from vegetables, just something having something I can look at everyday that resist the season… The ones I grow take 25 below zero, and come out unscathed! They’re wonderful! That’s one thing, I do besides vegetables…I have to prepare well the soil. When I initially plant after that they just a constant source of joy. Need a nice steady source of water… Near my entrance.
Back to the food issue, I get back to peppers
Local Organic Peppers Grown in Pots
Really like hot peppers, can grow quite a few container hot peppers. I sell those at the market. Beautiful as well as ornamental and edible. They have been fun to grow!
They’ve been my standby consistently, for approaching 25 years. We have fun! Then when everybody else starts growing them, I move on to something else, but the peppers are one thing I’ve been bringing to market for 25 years now.
You said you sell the pepper plants in containers?
What I encourage people do is for hot peppers just don’t like our cool nights and our cool soil but if you grow them in a pot, unless you are an absolute self-emulating chili heads who eats 100s of these every week, all you need is a couple for a whole year. Just buy them from me and you can do very well!
You need to bring them in before the frost or at least just harvest what you have and let it go. They add so much to the food! They’re different flavors, and they’re a beautiful ornamental plant as I said. If you like habenaros that’s the way to grow them, if you put them out in the garden they just don’t do as well here, but if you put them in pots they do fine.
Something you would steer new gardeners away from that you find is typically challenging to grow in your climate.
You know, I just don’t really have an answer.
What about melons? I just saw the Dixon Melon people at teh CFalls market.
They’re down 2700 feet… They have some climatic advantages.
A funny story, back in about 1989 I brought watermelons
It was the first time I came to the market, nobody knew me, they saw these watermelons. It was quite surprising that no one had brough watermelons to the market before. The assumption was you just don’t grow things here. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
in order to maintain the standards they want to make sure that things are locally grown
they checked me out
I enjoyed them for several years, Since then we have so many great melon growers, in Dixon and in Paradise.
something we … i did grow them in Arlee at 3100 feet, I started the plants, I used back plastic much babied them, and I sold them at the market, it created quite a stir.
it was just shortly after that they started down in Dixon, then down in Paradise. I did grow them in Arlee at 3100 feet… I babied them with mulch… Shortly just after that they started growing them … and we had lots of truckloads coming into the market. I have to laugh grom the time the market started nobody had melons, now we have them by the truckloads. Local nice organically grown melons filling the markets and stores, a lesson there we can really grow all kinds of things…
I guess, whatever you be inclined try growing it,
You’re right those Dixon Melon people had a truck full of melons that just smelled so strong and sweet! I know for me getting to Missoula in the middle of the summer can be an obstacle…
Filling the markets and the stores.
WE can really grow all kinds of things.
That is a lesson, whatever you are inclined to grow
Citrus and coconuts, use vast amounts of fossil fuels you’re creating all sorts of energy crimes trying to grow here.
Melons, peppers, eggplants, oh they grow just fine you just have to do it.
At the Farmer’s Market. The Dixon Melon people had a truck load of melons, you could smell the aroma of fresh delicious markets.
Which activity is your least favorite activity to do in the garden.
Soemthing I don’t really like to do, is spray aphids in a hopeless manor in my tomatoes.
Otherwise, I tend to procrastinate on the weeding, but weeding is one thing I’m not too fond of but it’s gotta be done, and the thing is you see such good results, a nice cleaned up bed, is the reward, I suppose if there’s something you particularly don’t like. I guess just tackle it first. Surprisingly happy that you did it, and you see such amazing results I think people put things off, but push it and you’ll be rewarded.
Swallow that Frog about getting your biggest challenge or what scares you the most over first thing in the mooring.
What is your favorite activity to do in the garden?
Having a nice cup of coffee and wandering around looking at it, just seeing things growing, noticing little things and being in a nice spiritual meditative estate! Go out and revel in the life, the surging life, that you see around you, it’s important to do that because it provides you the fuel and the energy wanting to keep getting out there, keep doing and swallow that frog!
What is the best gardening advice you have ever received?
A book How to grow vegetables the Chinese way
“If the people work hard, the land won’t be lazy”
Something the Chinese created as a proverb such an amazing people.
I get down, I get out there and it’s like, “If the people work hard, the land won’t be lazy”
Drip Irrigation System
A favorite tool that you like to use? If you had to move and could only take one tool with you what could you not live without?
As far as garden tools, probably my drip irrigation system.
I strongly recomment them every hardware store, big building store has them now. Go ahead and figure them out and play with them
then they can get rally out of hand, you can get mister systems, potted plants all hooked up with little hoses, timers, it can get out of hand, keep is simple, let it charm you… make sure it becomes indispensable too, I really recommend gardeners
- mister system
- potted plants
- drip line
- inline drippers
What if you were very first, going to the store, knew nothing about it, what would be the essential you would look for?
I would say, the drip line, they do offer kits this will cover so many sq feet of your garden. I have found that the weeping hose, semi course hose don’t work
the inline dippers the hoses that have the emitters the
drip out a certain amount kind of regulate the line and pressure
hoop house stops any natural percipitation from falling in, so you have to have some sort of system, drip line is wonderful. On hot days you can turn it on everyday for 15 minutes, and it keeps your soil moisture, the plants never know drought or being drowned they don’t have that huge swing of the tradtiaonl system where they
innovated put the water
They were developed by the Israelis but the whole world is using them now, because the Israelis had very little water, dry country.
Lrge ag system ideas they came up with again. Been developed further all over the world, California. And California will be using even more extensively.
Here, let’s say we have water (about 42 min)
put just a little bit as the soil is needed not washing out our fertilizers, and our water, is cold, ifrrigation water comes from melting glaciers here, the well water reflects the average annual temperature which is 47 degrees in Arlee.
never really chill your soil, extremely helpful for melons,, eggplants anything that likes the warmth.
Do you have any secrets for preserving food-making it last?
Don’t really, like to freeze is very conventient, make a point to freeze what I will eat, my poor mom who once had 6 kids, and then she didn’t have 6 kids and she couldn’t help over canning, over buying things had to be tossed out, focused on my limited huckleberry peaches, all locally buying, the freezing of fruits easy don’t need the blanching, like the vegetables do. I do love a nice stash of frozen peas or string beans, that do require blanching, but eat em up make sure you have a bare freezer by May so you’re excited.
Do you have any special techniques for cooking weird or unusual foods?
Not really I klike to cook fast, if it’s gonna be cooked apply the minimal amount of heat for preservation of flavor, so I do stir fry quite a bit. I do like broths, what do you call that spanish style chicken broth, make quite a large batch of that and use it throughout the week, that away then everything else may be cooked fast. the broth maybe has been simmered over a long time, where do preserve the vitamins. lovely combination of savory, long stewed flavors with fresh brightly, that’s the way to go.
A favorite recipe you like to cook from the garden?
One of the ones eggplant’s
A lot of people have a dismal view of eggplants because they probably had it fixed one way and probably fixed badly. It;s a neat trick because eggplants absorb hugue amounts of oil. People try it and it just sucks it right up ruining the health benefits of the eggplant because you have like a pound of butter in each eggplant.
But this recipe works, you cube the eggplant but you stirfry it in a wok, but not in hot oil, but in chicken broth and it seems to cook it just right. Later on when you Add the other ingredients just a little bit of oil, that way you get less oil and just delicious.
The other ingredients include
fresh lean pork ground and also
chili pepper, ginger, soy sauce, oriental seasonings. That way you can have a delicious. eggplant dish without the fat. I like the spicy part. Fast easy.
I’m just gonna say, one of my secrets is I pick them when they’re smaller. Idk when they’re 10′ maybe not even 6-8”, maybe like 2’in diameter. Not like big like you get in the store. Do you agree or do you like the big ones.
Here’s an eggplant I picked this year, a little smaller then usual but it was touching the ground ~ delicious:
Groceries store, the californians who grow the biggest most worthless bitter awful eggplants and ship them off to Montana and thing we don’t know any different.
They have to be smaller, shiny glossy,
when they start getting
they have to be picked younger.
there’s no such thing as an immature eggplant from the time they set as little tiny buttons on the flower, they’re edible. They do get too big, they start losing that gloss, and they’re awful and that’s what you see in the store.
I’ll have people say “When you get some size to your eggplants I’ll buy one. ” And I’ll say take this home this is when they’re truly delicious. I do that and I
A favorite internet resource?
Constantly looking for the info, can’t really say there’s a particular source except for Johnny’s Seeds out of Maine, they’re coming up with really good, well informed grow guides, if
if someone wants to do things ab it different things in a hoop house. Some of the best information I saw on grafting tomatoes for example, I’d tried a lot of this, but I read what they said and it’s really quite good.
All these different techniques.
I was asking Mike about growing some apricots, and he said you had to graft I don’t think you can grow from a seed anymore.
A favorite reading material-book, mag, blog/website etc you can recommend?
I’d have to go back to the Sunset Gardening Source
The Chinese Growing Gardens Chinese Style
in tatters quite good helped me understand things in bed,s like a field, along with the rodale publications that was instrumental in creating a much more satisfying gardening
Final question- if there was one change you would like to see to create a greener world what would it be? For example is there a charity or organization your passionate about or a project you would like to see put into action. What do you feel is the most crucial issue facing our planet in regards to the environment either in your local area or on a national or global scale?
Involving human nature, and policy, almost an unanswerable question. I think for myself, expand that national. You look at some countries they take better care of their people then there are countries that shade away.
Living conditions are pretty gruesome. Thing can be done better, and things can be done worse. I would just like to see, people individually take the initiative to improve their own yard, start at the center of their own universe learn all you can, look at the universe in a bigger picture, that’s deadly and fatal, because human innovation, if people have different ideas listen to them, if people have offensive ideas try to understand them, as best you can ,there are limits to all this, the point is that
too amy people
for example, I got rid of my tv, it’s such a time consuming and wasteful thing,
it overwhelms and takes over,I’m not telling everyone to get rid o their tavs
make sure you have enough time and space.
travel that’s so crucial too. Don’t just travel from resort to resort,
find out how the people live if you can learn a foreign language
learn all you can. That will be making the world
I do think you hit on quite a few things, being conscious about you environmental footprint and growing things
Oh you talked about being open minded ideas.
Like I wrote a book about Jeannette Rankin and I never would have done that if one of my professors at UM hadn’t called her a flake an so after he did that, and I went looking for a book and couldn’t find one and of course I wrote a book and so did 7 other people at the same time.
Try to understand them.
Do u have an inspiration tip or quote to help motivate our listeners to reach into that dirt and start their own garden?
Go back to the Chinese “If the people work hard the land won’t be lazy”
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