Succession Lettuce Interview 287 with Ray Tyler | Rose Creek Farms | Tennessee
Thursday, March 28, 2019!
It is a pleasure to be here!
Thanks for dealing with my tech problems gla we were able to connect!
Back in the spring of 2009, my wife asked me to plant a small garden so she could can some salsa for the winter.
Laid off- started farming with a tractor on 2 acres (terribly!), got into chickens, laying hens, pigs, and even a few cows.
And after a radical diet and lifestyle change that followed our Daughter health crisis we started to consume large amounts of Vegetables, a lot less meat and in the fall of 2015 we made a leap of faith to sell our meat business, stop using a tractor, and farm using only one acre. Our farming friends thought we were insane, but we were pretty certain that focusing on just produce would allow us to master the lettuce crop in 2016. We had lettuce for sale every week that season! We were so thrilled to discover that we tripled our income on half the amount of land that year! Excited and inspired, we knew we were heading in the right direction. By focusing on creating better growing systems in our produce operation, changing our farm practices, we now have year round production, a near weed free farm (which makes me thrilled nearly every day) and being really aggressive and creative about our sales outlets for our area, we have been able to live a sustainable and enjoyable life, rarely working in the fields more that 8 hours, which was one of our top goals!
wife ashley – 5 kids
1981
Tell us a little about yourself.
My name is Ray Tyler with my wife Ashley of Rose Creek farms down here in Selma TN
Between Memphis and Nashville
Mississippi border
Kind of in the edge of that zone 7-zone 8
depends on what kind of year we are having
trying to grow as much food as we can on one acre
Battling the pests that never seem to die and the endless weeds thanks to the humidity
raising 6 young at the same time! And having a blast!
Wow you must have had a new baby!
7 month old baby to 10 years old so there is never a dull moment!
How great is that? These kids being raised amongst others by a garden like this!
as they get older
we don’t make them work on the farm
We know a lot of children who were forced to work who hate it
all do the house chores dishes
farm
they only work if they want to and we pay them for it
It’s created a very healthy environment
They look at the farm as a very positive aspect of their life
fortunate
every year they want to make more money
do more things
so it’s a kind of tremendous joy
So we are homeschooling as well so they are always with us.
Now do you have animals too?
When we first started 10 years ago, we had this dream of farming full time. When we first got started, for the first few years the farm was absolute chaos!
We’re trying to
- start a business
- farming things in the south
- raising children
It’s a pretty tough market
east coast
west coast
local food
pretty tough gig!
theres not a lot of information on small scale farms in the south so we were really carving out this farm from not a lot of info we could find anyways.
We were on 2 acres
- 2-3k chickens
- 300 turkeys
- 50-60 hogs
- cows at one point
- 2 acres of produce with the tractor
we were
starting
I’ll bet you learned a lot.
We learned a ton! so much!
we learned just a ton!
we got at this point at 2015
when a lot of people start farming or gardening, thinkingwe have this idea of we want to have time we wnat to go out work the land of our family
Get out of the rat race and the 9-5 grind and we wanted to farm to escape that
Fast forward a few years and I was finding I had less time for my family before I started farming then after
In 2015 we had this wakeup call, February 2015
greenhouses packed of transplants for production
big batch of broilers on order
My wife came home with my daughter and said are you ready for life to change?
I said don’t be silly we’re farmers, nothing new around here
Can I just back up, your baby daughter?
Some back story, we sent our daughter to a dentist, they saw something funky to gums and it came back positive for carcenoma, and she was 6 years old!
It was a big deal, and a tough time to put the farm on hold
spring
tough time to do that
best thing that ever happened to us
believe it or not
organic farmers
worst eaters of all
on the road
deliveries
not spending as much time as you would like cooking your food
So our health was terrible!
gaining weight
ailments
so what it did basically we had to take a step way back and reevaluate everything we were doing and the children, we had 4 at the time
With all the chaos that comes with
all those animals
driving to market
and all that time we were taking her to the hospital
our daughter is cancer free just so you know, we thank God every day for her life!
at that season ~ we were like, what we want at the end of the day
you can have a farm and houses and land and cars what is important is that at the end of the day we are surrounded by the ones we love and they love us
we stressed for the rest of our life would be based on time with our family and brought everything back through this lens that looked like
if this takes away time from our end goal
- healthy family
- home school them
- time
- trips
- experiences
If it takes away from any of that we have to reevaluate if that’s what were supposed to be doing at this time.
we questioned should we keep farming? This is a big deal if there were a few weeks of her to live.
There is nothing worse for a parent to be faced with the thought for losing a child and we are thankful we did’t have to do that. But we realized that life is precious, every moment is fleeting, you never know if tomorrow or today is our last day.
At the end of that season we basically got rid of our animals and changed our diet for her
- no pork
- vegetable based diet
- to help her recover from cancer
- less meat
- more produce
looking at raising the animals, if processing them was no longer bringing us joy so we imagined what life would be like for us without the livestock portion of our business
life would be good if we
- didn’t have to feed the pigs
- take care of all these turkeys
sold the livestock
We’d been growing on 2 acres
Had all the tractor equipment where I had no idea
sold all the equipment
went down to one acre
knew I had a big market for lettuce
developing on how to have it year round
never really had the time to give the proper attention to this crop
focus her in the south
lettuce needed to be planted
cultivated
time and attention that it needed
all the animals
one acre
Really focused on 10-15 crops
tripled our gross on the vegetable side of business on 1/2 the amount of land for probably
working
2016 commitment we were only going to work 8 hours a day
I wanted to be home for suppers, put them to bed, and to have that quality time in the evening.
How were able to do that? Did you hire help? Farmer only working 8 hours a day during the season? Maybe in Tennessee your in season all year?
In Tennessee, three’s this time in August its so hot, other then greens there’s not a whole lot going on, everything’s just done.
how we did that
We already had some accounts that we had been working on for 5 years
we were very deliberate what we were going to grow
growing is the easy part
selling is the hard part
sales
records
what we knew we could sell
80 varieties of vegetables we cut out all that waste and we grew the probably 10-20 crops we knew we could sell at that time of year
Simplified everything!
another thing we did
we still o to this day at certain times of year
what killed us wheat
wheat acropolis down here in the
Invested in like $2000 of landscape fabric.
automated
10 hours of cultivation
for the season
landscape fabrics
- laid out the fabric
- plant
- set up automatic water
- next thing you do is harvest and sell
- eliminated hundreds of hours
Eliminated hundreds of hours on watering and and cultivation
changed everything!
Streamlined our whole process,there’s a lot more complicaterd but aht’s the basic thing
knowing we were only growing
I did spend $1500 various educational consulting for my business
I want to make this thing happen this year, I could figure this out but that investment in the education really helped combined with my experience
Can I just ask, did you take a class or invest in a mentor? REad books?
A number of things:
I did a series of phone conversations with Curtis Stone
He took a look at our farm, he didn’t really tell us what to do but asked us some questions of, have you considered this?
I already knew what to do, but having that sounding board really helped a lot
Then I did another series of consulting, be cause me and my wife farm together
farming with a partner
that was really the biggest thing
interseeding thing
At the end of 2015 I hired JM to come down to my farm, I ended up selling tickets for that event, because it is pretty expensive so I sold tickets for that event which sold out in a short amount of time
idea to give me some tips on my farm but since I spent so much time organizing this event, we became great friends, but I didn’t get the consulting I was planning. Doing workshops on a farm is a tremendous amount of work. So it was a mixture of all that
It wasn’t as much what we did as what we did not do. When you drop a pretty large animal business, it opens up a tremendous amount of time.
Having that other business took up a lot of brain wave, like where’s this going to be sold so I was able to put time towards my produce production.
And when you go from two acres to one acre it just makes things Very very simple
When you go from chaos to order it makes things very easy to metabolize
how all this was going to work
I had 5 years experience before . It was just taking out the fat and really leaning being deliberate about what you are going to grow and getting some other help looking at the whole system!
You have no idea how fascinating this is to us. My husband and I are drooling over this place in Maine that is 175 acres of woods with 13 acres of farmland, with 2 homes, we are in just 20 acres. It’s like less then 60 miles from Johnny’s selected seeds in Maine. It’s got a house that needs a ton of work, I feel like the house could be an awesome education center. I just can’t imagine what it would take. My husband grew up on 1200 acres and we’re just so boxed in here. I keep asking the realtor aren’t there any records, that’s what I feel like what we need to do, is to offer a farmer in the local area that cuold pay us.
I do quite a bit of consulting myself, and so the way I approach this, you have to know, what is your end goal? What are you trying to accomplish with your farm? There is no wrong answer. Maybe:
- I want to make a living
- I want a place for my children to work
- make a side income
- I just want to produce food, I don’t need it to make money
There are so many ways
I’ve consulted for people who have nothing to multi millionaires
understanding what your goal is
If your goal is to make an income
- how much do you have to make?
- what are you bills?
- don’t promoot
- tractor or no tractor
- what’s your dina
entreprentuer
what is your end goal?
A huge part in how your farm ultimately produces
how it runs
If you don’t like to work with people and want to one man show
this property to make 100% of this income and you have no off farm income you are going to have to approach it a completely different way. LEt’s say you want to be making $300k in 10 years.
If you are in MAine and everyone’s a farmer and your trying to make it as a gardener, where if youru are in the middle of no where it could be easier but you might have a harder time to grow. IT’s a lot of fun to start in a blank canvas because it can go in any direction!
We want to grow hemp and sunflowers and food! Those are my big ones!
Sunflower agritourism
I think this whole sunflower agritourism field is a huge opportunity for folks who have large plots of land! Or even medium plots of land. If you have a 5 acre plot.
What’s a sunflower agritourism field?
If you were to grow an acre of sunflowers. And you were going to charge $5-10 a person to go in there and take a picture of them in the sunflowers.
I want to grow the sunflowers for bird seed. Those could compliment each other because the seeds come after the blooms. I had no idea.
At least here in my area, in the south, it’s tremendous
All these young people who want to have this themselves or a with a partner in a field of sunflowers. People will play big money for that. You can charge people. Maybe you can hire professional photographers who could take pictures of people.
And it comes with this huge house I feel could turn into an online education center. My degree is elementary education and our goal is to teach as many people about organic gardening as we can.
Obviously I do a number of online education, but my favorite is the on farm education! I’ve hosted numerous on farm workshops for the past few years and a lot of people are very hands-on visual learners who want ot go see a farm and garden!
People want to see what you are talking about
- what kind of water you have
- spacings you are working with
- if you are going to spend $5000 worth of tools they want to feel lit
- how is a high tunnel is set up or a greenhouse
You never know, till you see things exist!
Tell me about your first gardening experience?
You know my earliest time of growing that I remember was growing sunflowers. We had just moved to Tennessee
neighbors garden patch
no experience what’s so ever
triple 13 fertilizer
I want these babies to grow
The next day there there was not a trace of sunflwoers to be seen!
they had just germinated, so I had burned them so they disintegrated
but I saw first hand what conventional farming and what chemicals can do, I was like this is just crazy!
that was just a few week experience, I didn’t do any serious farming or gardening after that. I remember feeling of bare soil with my bare feet when I was twelve.
Did you grow up in Tennessee where you are?
my dad was in the navy, but
we travel
We were on our way to Mexico and our car broke down and we have been here ever since.
Are you a millennial? Awesome!
millennial 1981
How did you learn how to garden organically?
I think what it was, was in 2009, I had this chance, my wife basically wanted a little patch to put away some salsa. I said, sure we could but we had more weeds then plants, the weeds were 6 feet tall, you couldn’t even see the plants
But there were there any farms around so I found a farmer who was like 4-5 hours away in Kentucky.
November
lettuce
I said that’s what I am going to do
I paid him to come to my farm for 2 days and help me get my farm set up
got a high tunnel
how to plan it out
seed
- what variety
- when to transplant
- taught me all he could in 2 days
- he grew organically
- got me started in farming
- in 2 days
Can’t thank him enough from that workshop
There have been with a lot of mistakes and failures
grow better and better
Mike’s goal is to grow our produce for us, so we don’t have to buy much. I know the learning curve is just huge. The first year he grew like 4 times as much as ever before then the next it was like 10 times as much!
Tell us about something that grew well this year.
I would say one thing that did really well bok chop
That was really fun
now Im at the point I’m trying all kinds of veggies that is typically not grown in our area.
Now how do you sell your stuff do you sell at the market or a CSA?
- I have a CSA
- grocery stores
- restaurants
- online Shopify store
- on farm delivery
- home delivery but it has to be a certain amount
basically whoever will buy, we will sell to!
That’s a lot of places! Are you still driving 2 hours to the farmer’s market?
we drive an hour
2 1/2
The majority goes to Memphis which is 2 hours away.
And you make enough to cover that?!
Absolutely! And one week we go to the farmer’s market.
once a week!
I have someone go to one I pay and I go to the other market.
Is there something you would do different next year or want to try/new?
we grow 52 weeks a year
I am I’ve grown almost everything, I haven’t grown artichoke
trying to grow
can I have a crop of all year round consistently?
So, one thing I am going to work hard on this year, we lack about 8 years out of the season we can’t grow is spinach. So we’re really pushing the spinach hard some things you try last year
hopefully try that again one of the crops we are excited about to be able to grow all 52 weeks a year
another one would be cilantro!
really popular here in the south
Mexican food culture
high in demand herb
looking at having that all year round. I have 9 tunnels and an acre worth of land
Can I ask, one thing my listeners wonder about. When I was picking my kale, and thinking about takng it to town to sell, what I will eat is very different from what I think would sell. What do you do about all these pest?
I think it depends what it is,
aphids is going to be a problem in the winter time on
- spinach
- lettuce
- probably kale
- collards
- chard
safer soap works really well
I would say our number one pests would be flea beetles
you can use an organic spray
pyganic
can get it from Johnny’s seeds any other organic stores
another spray that I really like called
molt x
it doesn’t kill the bugs but it kind of just slows them down
what it does basically it kind of makes some sluggish where they stop eating
Then they kind of die off
I like it because it’s not really killing anything down
2 methods when it comes to spray.
We don’t like to spray unless we have to even if it’s organic
hassle to have to spray
if we see something like a flea beetle that will completely decimate a crop
120º
we have a tough time
flea beetles come out in droves
if you don’t do an organic spray like that you can not grow things like
- kale
- bok choi
- kale
- arugula
- collards
- chard
- mustard greens
if you want to have those crops in the south
- turnips
- radishes
You have to do either insect netting
The problem is its so hot and humid in our summer that the crops just melt and just completely dissolve in the soil
what we have found in the south when you have those pests
either
safer soap
definitely try insect netting you might have a hard time with that in a hot humid climates and might have to use organic sprays.
Tell me about something that didn’t work so well this season.
Every year we have some crop failures
I would say, a crop that right off hand did not do so well, we definitely had a tough time with our mustard last year
not sure i want to keep growing this
kind of a hard sell
hot
flavor was off
WE may end up dropping it.
Let’s get to the root of things!
Which activity is your least favorite activity to do in the garden?
I would say, I mean spraying is probably my least favorite I would say, I’m not a big fan of pulling or cultivating. For the most part it is the least favorite. I’m trying to think of and I’m sure all my employees would agree is picking okra.
It grows very well n the south but it is not fun to harvest!
- itchy
- sweaty
- grows tall
- It’s a fun crop to eat and a fairly profitable crop to sell!
I’ve had employees say I’ll work for you but I’ll quit if you want me to pick okra. So we paid almost double!
I talked to a teacher who grew okra with her kids last year.
What is your favorite activity to do in the garden?
I really enjoy harvesting, that’s probably my favorite. Tehre’s something especially if it’s a really good crop
looks good
easy to pick
harvest a lot less now then I used to
other people to do it
- prepped the ground
- took care of the soil
- kept the bugs away
- had your water dialed in
Harvesting lettuce in august is very satisfying! when no one else had is and it looks good it’s sweet! Healthy!
I found you because I found your how to grow succession lettuce class. Do you have some tips for that?
where that came from
when I first started farming in 2009/10 I was told it’s impossible to grow lettuce in the summer here ~ tweetable
I have to figure out how to grow this year round.
summer of 2015
I had lettuce every week of the summer
all 52 weeks of the year
just got to the pint of where
You know
on farm workshop on the crop
could not teach everybody
all for the most part sell out!
a lot of my method is very systemitized. IT makes it pretty easy, you can learn how to grow this in a very hot environment.
I put all this information together
- many hours of video
- all of our supplies
- techniques and templates
- well rounded course
that people can basically take and also I’m available once a week with a coaching call so people can successfully have lettuce year round
It’s one of those crops that if you can devote a little bit of
- time to
- money and effort
folks who are looking at
possibly making some money from their backyard or farm
escalate their sales
quickly following
That’s where I now teach this lettuce class
online you take the house
once a week
well received
a lot of folks
do really well with their production
10 years of failing
what a better way to learn
change and adapt
yep this is where doing succession planting is important
every 2 weeks
seeding a small batch of spinach to help it
When greens get hot
gonna get stressed
any kind of greens get stressed
rapid fluctuation of temp it’s gonna say it’s time to reproduce before we die! That’s what is going on so if you want to have consistent lettuce or greens you have to be always seeding or transplanting every week or every other week
spinach ongoing
kills us in the south
IT doesn’t matter where you’re at if you have a stressful environment it’s gonna bolt!
What is the best gardening advice you have ever received?
I would say work smarter not harder
A favorite tool that you like to use? If you had to move and could only take one tool with you what would it be.
Man I would say landscape fabric.
A favorite recipe you like to eat from the garden?
my wife and I can email this if you want to share it with your listeners.
When we started this new diet we ate 2 salads a day
all kinds of salad so we came up with a dressing that would help us metabolize all our food. We wanted something the whole family would enjoy, so my wife created this dressing that we put on :
- kale
- chard
dressing
everyone who has had it
probably eat 5-10 lbs a week
- 4 cups olive oil
- 1 cup apple cider vinegar
- 1 cup lemon or lime juice
- 8 cloves of garlic
- whole garlic not powder
- raw whole onions
- parsley
- other simple ingredients
Does it have a vinegar? Vinegrette.
It’s oil based. Yes it is.
I guess it has lemon.
Here it is. It’s important you use a high quality blender.
Blend that above until thoroughly pureed. After that’s full purees
gently pulse in
- 1 TBSP oregano,
- 1 TBSP parsley
- 1 TBSP salt
- 1 TBSP thyme
We found it is important those herbs are fresh if you have a garden that’s really good!
tremendous dressing
we have everyone we have fed this to
this more kale
lettuce
great healthy way
- no processed sugars
- gluten free
- no dairy
all raw!
nothing process
Do you keep it in the fridge or on the shelf? I make a similar dressing but in the fridge it gets all hard.
Leave it on the counter. There’s no dairy that’s gonna go bad. Whole food, it’s not going to last long, maybe a week. We go through 2 batches a week.
A favorite internet resource?
I’ve been really looking at, it’s hard to research not a lot of places in the south that have done a lot of research so I’m basically looking at Universities
California based growers information
THere’s a lot more money in california for studies and trials and diseases
They have reached out to other farmers abroad around the world.
I’m definitely nerding out on california.
Do you ever go to Joe The Gardener? Joe Lamp’l he’s in Atlanta. He’s usually on TV for I interviewed Joe in April 2017 from Growing a Greener World.
A favorite reading material-book, mag, blog/website etc you can recommend?
there’s the produce growers magazine
research in there
deals with a lot of diseases
food trends
in my work
sales guy
trends
crops I should be looking at
growing for market
small farms
Final question-
if there was one change you would like to see to create a greener world what would it be? For example is there a charity or organization your passionate about or a project you would like to see put into action. What do you feel is the most crucial issue facing our planet in regards to the environment either in your local area or on a national or global scale?
This is fantastic
I would say that it’s hard for
I don’t see myself changing the whole world! That’s 7 billion people but I can make an impact in my local community!
Maybe there’s some organization that can help more people take responsibility for the community. There so many issues and problems in the world, if you could see all the issues and suffering at one time, you would probably die from just too much hurt. But you can take care of your own family. We don’t have any business taking care of the world until we get our own house in order
can we change our local community?
ripple effects
if you can change an aspect in your community
other people abroad to do the same thing global community where you have thousands of people impacting their local communities! ! lot can happen in that way and it’s very doable.
Let’s say if we want to see more people eat healthy. We can
- grow healthy food
- more people do that abroad
- make a tremendous impact
responsibility for your own person community, then you make a big impact on the world.
Do you have an inspiration tip or quote to help motivate our listeners to reach into that dirt and start their own garden?
Start with what you have right now!
How do we connect with you?
our website
fb
all those things
email me ray@rosecreekfarms.net
I wanted to ask you, how did you get this huge business background? Did you go to business school? All this business sense. Traveling around with your dad in the navy? You seem to have this business mindset.
I have a terrible education, but my dad taught me how to learn.
I wanted to have a business that would support my family
I learned
- books
- courses
- there’s a lot of education out there
If you are willing to search and pay for it, you can learn a tremendous amount without having to go to school. Which is always expanding, I feel like I have barely scratched the surface of what can be accomplished. I highly encourage your listeners to invest in your educaion, keep expanding and challenging yourself.
I love that believe in abundance. I’m definitely an abundance not a scarcity girl. THANKS for sharing with us today! And keep going taking care of our planet and being a great dad etc!
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